I love the idea of hands-on, minds-on learning; students who are in charge of their learning and are excited about it. However, I don’t think all students are drawn in, especially if there is a class-wide focus. I think debates can really pull in those 21st century skills. Students can work collaboratively researching a topic, then think critically and even use some creativity in crafting their arguments. However, I don’t see all students as debaters. Some are too timid and would shrink from standing in front of the class, even with a topic they knew well. I think science fairs can be a great way to allow students to find a passion area. For students to be able to research a topic and come up with a hypothesis and test it out, some would love it. However, for a class-wide project, it would take a significant amount of time, and there would have to be a discussion about how to provide the materials. Some students could pay for them without a thought, while others would have to settle for a less expensive project so they didn’t spend as much money. Also, there’s a question of the time line. Could teachers spend the amount of time needed to do the project justice and still get through the necessary content?
I think you bring up a great point about materials needed and timelines for science fairs. I know that some students would feel bad not having the "cool" project just because they could not get some of the materials needed. Plus after reading about all the simulations, it did leave me wondering too about how the author has time to do all of this!
Our sophomore English teacher wanted to have us complete debates; so split us up into teams of 2, assigned our partner, our topic, which side we were on, and gave us 2 days to prep. Since we didn’t have any sort of choice in the matter, there was no student buy in and not near enough time to do all the necessary research. Not to mention, I don’t think the teacher had ever been part of a debate (And we students sure hadn’t), because our process did not look ANYTHING like what Solarz described, haha! With all that being said, I do agree with your comment that debates would be a GREAT way to develop a lot of 21st century skills; If it’s set up correctly :-) Otherwise, it’s just a huge waste of time.
I think debates would be hard for a lot of students to really "buy" in to. While many would love the debating aspect, they would not want to spend the time for the research.
Science Projects are a great way to do hands on learning. As a parent I dreaded Science fair time, although my children loved it and did well. Science Fair is a BIG deal at one of the schools I taught at in Colorado and in the Jr. High/High school level the science teacher adopted it as part of the curriculum. He introduced the Science Fair and all it's parts the first two weeks of school and incorporated it into a pre-test. Then he had due dates every 3-4 weeks for the separate parts: Hypothesis, teacher approval, supplies, data charts, etc.
I helped several students with this and having it broken down seemed to make it so much easier. I like the idea of students working on it at home with parents involved. Parents had to sign off on the project as one of the first steps (so they could have some say in costs and time).
I agree that students really would not want to spend the time doing the research for the debate. Plus a lot of my students would use Wiki sources and then the credablity of those sources turns into another lesson needed for the debate. Plus depending on the students and the issues, some debates (at least in high school) could get loud and out of hand as some student may shout across the room or over another student. Then I would like more of policewomen then a teacher.
One of our ELA teachers does debates every year. This year she did them multiple times. The kids really got into it. I think they get to choose the side they want to be on, so they are a little more passionate about it because they had formed an opinion. I think most recently she put multiple topics on the board so kids signed up for the topic they wanted to debate and a side of that debate topic. It is a good skill for them to learn. Kids need to learn how to disagree intelligently and in a civilized manner. If we do not teach or model it, where will they learn those skills? Our current political mess should show us how much society needs to learn to disagree in a civilized manner!!
I remember in highschool, one of my teachers had us argue the side opposite our own personal beliefs. It was a challenging as a teenager to see the other perspective, but it was a valuable experience.
In my building if a student is doing a debate, then they must be doing forensics. I know that occasionally the government teacher does political debates about current issues but they are not done to the extent that the author has suggested. Science fairs are also not done in my building. I am not really sure why. I do know that out of the three science teachers we have at the high school, only one teacher does experiments on regular bases. I think that both debates and science fairs need to come back to the high school. So many times in science students stop taking classes as soon as they are done with the required credits needed to graduate and complain that science in boring and all they do is take notes. As far as debate, this should be used in classrooms! Ever talk to a high school student recently? They have no idea about WHY things are that way or why people feel that way. Not to mention that they cannot hold a decent conversation without the words “I don’t know.” At least most of them anyway.
Our high school has brought back forensics. My daughter is a senior and in her Gov't class they just finished presidental debates, Reagan won by the way. The students were divided into teams and assigned a president. It was amazingly a popular project! If organzied the right way I see that debates are very beneficial!!
Our school has done forensics for years....but in the four years I've been there, they have not fielded a debate team. Debate is pretty intense. They certainly help kids think on their feet. Debate also teaches them to know the opposition.
I loved your comment about knowing the WHY behind an opinion. And forget this just being geared towards high school students… After watching news/video of everything presidentially related right now (And I'm just using that as an example because it's the most current), it seems like a lot of adults need to figure out why they’re supporting whatever they’re supporting, too, instead of just jumping on a bandwagon. I know those clips tend to pick out and show the worst of the worst, but even so, it doesn’t seem like they’re lacking on participants, you know???
Our school does hold a science fair, with the work being done during the day. It is amazing to see the topics kids come up with and the work the put into it. Judges are the HS science teachers. They then compete at Liberal with the winners going on the state in Wichita. A great way for kids to shine! We do offer a debate class this year. I have some students who are so passionate about certain topics that they would debate it to the end!! Hard for them to see others views, but may listen more than I think to what other have to say. This again would need some constraints and the students have to learn it is ok not to agree with others and have other not agree with you!! A life skill.
I have never in my entire life been a part of a science fair, I have only seen them on TV. I was in a social studies fair when I was in elementary school, I made a Trojan Horse. That was alot of fun. I can imagine how challenging it would be to organzie but I really do wish that science and social studies fair would make a come back! How lucky you are!!!
Reactions to Debates and Science Fairs: How they are used? If they are used? How to improve on them?
The league our school is in used to do a science fair competition for our league schools. I think it was great and it was a way for the students to do a hands on project and really learn some real world information from it. The league quit doing it because of participation. I was part of the petro active training that high plains did a few years ago and it would be awesome for a science fair. When I have taught science to kids I used it and it was great. Debates are something that I think really brings out critical thinking skills. I have not used them in my SPED classes, but used them at times in my business law class when I was a general ed. teacher. I think they would be beneficial at any level, it is just having enough kids in one class at a time to make it beneficial.
I like the idea of both. My class has a subscription to Scholastic Action Magazine. In each issue there is a debate article. The article is a high interest subject with pro's and con's given for the topic. My students like to orally debate the article. That is closest thing to a debate I do in my reading classes. In the past the 8th grade science teacher has had certain students participate in a science fair activity but it was not a whole class or whole school activity. I wish our district did science or social studies fairs. I believe project based learning is far more effective than testing students!!!
A science fair, done as part of the classroom teaching on the various parts (question, research, actual experiment, data) and putting together the poster board would be much better than a test. Computer class could be brought in to help do the poster. In the Science fairs I'm familiar with; the students talk w/ the judges, so that would be a great public speaking experience before a small audience of one or two judges.
I'm used to hearing/seeing this strategy too. Only a specific group of students participate.. like, science club has a science fair, or the school has one as an optional project, so only students who WANT to participate have to and its not graded or guided at school. So, this is usually the students just super into science or doing it as part of some college application boosters.
Idea.. Yes. In theory? Maybe for older students. I can see my 2nd graders getting easily distracted and forget what they were debating or get upset and quit. I'm not honestly sure if Lakin does a science fair or not! I think it could be a lot of fun for the kids and it's always best to see the cool ideas they come up with. But, as a sped teacher, I can see some of these projects being pushed onto us if they aren't getting their work done at home and then we have to use our important class time or pull them from other classes to do these projects...
My own daughters did science fair at the elementary level. I can not remember the specific grade, but they were young. It was very simplistic compared to what we would do at the middle school. For example, the teacher chose the topic and gave the students the directions for an experiment. The kids basically had to perform the experiment and write about what happened. They did create a science fair board and presented to judges, but at the elementary level they were not required to have all the components that are required at the upper grades. I think it helped my daughters when they got to middle school and had to do a complete science fair project because it was something they were somewhat familiar with.
Yeah, I definitely think these are for the older age groups. But science projects as a class could be fun. Maybe do a handful of them as a group, then after they are all completed have a parent night where the kids just walk around with their parents and explain what the class did for each one. This would just be an introductory way :)
For several years, our 8th graders all participated in the science fair. We recently quit participating in it though. We currently have 7th graders who participate in the History Fair. My own children have done projects for the ingenuity fair (they had to invent something and present to judges) while they were in elementary school. All were interesting projects and had their merits. One big problem I have seen with all of them is they are large projects that take a considerable amount of time. Kids are bad about procrastinating on projects when they think they have plenty of time. Sometimes they are so overwhelmed they struggle to get started. In general, if a student is bad with organization and time management, they will struggle in finishing on time. I have not seen a lot of guidance from teachers about how to solve these issues. It is not just the sped kids that struggle with this either. A lot of general education students have poor organization and time management skills. I think it makes sense to move to more projects such as science and history fairs as well as debates, especially in the history and science classes. Our current history and science assessments are not tests of recall of facts, but are rather a test of whether they can read historical or scientific documents and understand them to answer questions. Projects and debates are a better use of those types of skills rather than paper/pencil recall tests.
I was never a part of a science fair nor have I ever been to one. However, the way the author talks about them makes them seem awesome! I think these would be a blast and I love all the components. The revision process he describes is amazing and my favorite. Revision is so hard for my students and really for me to teach without saying "does that sound right? how could we make that sound better or more correct?" So I find myself doing a lot of the revision rather than the students figuring it out. A video presentation to see their own improvements is so empowering!! I also like his ideas of just having fairs! It doesn't necessarily have to be a science fair. I don't teach science but I have science components to some reading we do. I think some history would be pretty neat too. My kids loved learning about Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, and Ruby Bridges. This would be cool to do during Black History month. I think a way to improve the struggles of what science fairs have been in the past is what the author suggested of having the students complete the entire thing at school. This way so much more can be monitored and have teacher guidance and support.
I got to listen in on the discussion about a debate team between our forensic coach and an ELA teacher. The comments were that debate if very intense and a "ton" of research is involved. They commented that Ulysses is one of two schools in SW Kansas that participates in debate. Just thought those comments were interesting after our discussion on here.
I can only think of 1 of the districts I work in where Science Fairs/Debates are still being done. I love science fairs especially because I think it provides a great opportunity for a larger number of kiddos to shine and really delve deep into a topic they’re interested in. Plus, they then get to develop that project through various media they like and might not get to work with as much otherwise. Typically, the teacher who sponsors this at the elementary level always has positive stories to share about the kiddos that we work with (And, really, ALL of the students to be honest), the great skills they demonstrated, and the progress they made throughout the process.
Our 3rd graders still have a Science Fair every spring as part of their science grade. This year my youngest is a 3rd grader and he doesn’t usually have much to say about things they do/learn in class but when it came time for the science fair projects he was quick to tell me he already knew what he wanted to do. I think this is an areas that allows our students to explore something they are interested in and be a peer model and teach others.
I've missed the district's participation in science fairs since the teacher that supported them retired. So many kids I interview at the middle and high school level have skills in science and math, but deficits in language arts. These were an opportunity for them to shine and to meet others with similar interests - for some these were really Passion projects.
I love the idea of hands-on, minds-on learning; students who are in charge of their learning and are excited about it. However, I don’t think all students are drawn in, especially if there is a class-wide focus.
ReplyDeleteI think debates can really pull in those 21st century skills. Students can work collaboratively researching a topic, then think critically and even use some creativity in crafting their arguments. However, I don’t see all students as debaters. Some are too timid and would shrink from standing in front of the class, even with a topic they knew well.
I think science fairs can be a great way to allow students to find a passion area. For students to be able to research a topic and come up with a hypothesis and test it out, some would love it. However, for a class-wide project, it would take a significant amount of time, and there would have to be a discussion about how to provide the materials. Some students could pay for them without a thought, while others would have to settle for a less expensive project so they didn’t spend as much money. Also, there’s a question of the time line. Could teachers spend the amount of time needed to do the project justice and still get through the necessary content?
I think you bring up a great point about materials needed and timelines for science fairs. I know that some students would feel bad not having the "cool" project just because they could not get some of the materials needed. Plus after reading about all the simulations, it did leave me wondering too about how the author has time to do all of this!
DeleteOur sophomore English teacher wanted to have us complete debates; so split us up into teams of 2, assigned our partner, our topic, which side we were on, and gave us 2 days to prep. Since we didn’t have any sort of choice in the matter, there was no student buy in and not near enough time to do all the necessary research. Not to mention, I don’t think the teacher had ever been part of a debate (And we students sure hadn’t), because our process did not look ANYTHING like what Solarz described, haha! With all that being said, I do agree with your comment that debates would be a GREAT way to develop a lot of 21st century skills; If it’s set up correctly :-) Otherwise, it’s just a huge waste of time.
DeleteI think debates would be hard for a lot of students to really "buy" in to. While many would love the debating aspect, they would not want to spend the time for the research.
ReplyDeleteScience Projects are a great way to do hands on learning. As a parent I dreaded Science fair time, although my children loved it and did well. Science Fair is a BIG deal at one of the schools I taught at in Colorado and in the Jr. High/High school level the science teacher adopted it as part of the curriculum. He introduced the Science Fair and all it's parts the first two weeks of school and incorporated it into a pre-test. Then he had due dates every 3-4 weeks for the separate parts: Hypothesis, teacher approval, supplies, data charts, etc.
I helped several students with this and having it broken down seemed to make it so much easier. I like the idea of students working on it at home with parents involved. Parents had to sign off on the project as one of the first steps (so they could have some say in costs and time).
I agree that students really would not want to spend the time doing the research for the debate. Plus a lot of my students would use Wiki sources and then the credablity of those sources turns into another lesson needed for the debate. Plus depending on the students and the issues, some debates (at least in high school) could get loud and out of hand as some student may shout across the room or over another student. Then I would like more of policewomen then a teacher.
DeleteOne of our ELA teachers does debates every year. This year she did them multiple times. The kids really got into it. I think they get to choose the side they want to be on, so they are a little more passionate about it because they had formed an opinion. I think most recently she put multiple topics on the board so kids signed up for the topic they wanted to debate and a side of that debate topic. It is a good skill for them to learn. Kids need to learn how to disagree intelligently and in a civilized manner. If we do not teach or model it, where will they learn those skills? Our current political mess should show us how much society needs to learn to disagree in a civilized manner!!
DeleteI remember in highschool, one of my teachers had us argue the side opposite our own personal beliefs. It was a challenging as a teenager to see the other perspective, but it was a valuable experience.
DeleteIn my building if a student is doing a debate, then they must be doing forensics. I know that occasionally the government teacher does political debates about current issues but they are not done to the extent that the author has suggested. Science fairs are also not done in my building. I am not really sure why. I do know that out of the three science teachers we have at the high school, only one teacher does experiments on regular bases. I think that both debates and science fairs need to come back to the high school. So many times in science students stop taking classes as soon as they are done with the required credits needed to graduate and complain that science in boring and all they do is take notes. As far as debate, this should be used in classrooms! Ever talk to a high school student recently? They have no idea about WHY things are that way or why people feel that way. Not to mention that they cannot hold a decent conversation without the words “I don’t know.” At least most of them anyway.
ReplyDeleteOur high school has brought back forensics. My daughter is a senior and in her Gov't class they just finished presidental debates, Reagan won by the way. The students were divided into teams and assigned a president. It was amazingly a popular project! If organzied the right way I see that debates are very beneficial!!
DeleteOur school has done forensics for years....but in the four years I've been there, they have not fielded a debate team. Debate is pretty intense. They certainly help kids think on their feet. Debate also teaches them to know the opposition.
DeleteStacy-
DeleteI loved your comment about knowing the WHY behind an opinion. And forget this just being geared towards high school students… After watching news/video of everything presidentially related right now (And I'm just using that as an example because it's the most current), it seems like a lot of adults need to figure out why they’re supporting whatever they’re supporting, too, instead of just jumping on a bandwagon. I know those clips tend to pick out and show the worst of the worst, but even so, it doesn’t seem like they’re lacking on participants, you know???
Our school does hold a science fair, with the work being done during the day. It is amazing to see the topics kids come up with and the work the put into it. Judges are the HS science teachers. They then compete at Liberal with the winners going on the state in Wichita. A great way for kids to shine! We do offer a debate class this year. I have some students who are so passionate about certain topics that they would debate it to the end!! Hard for them to see others views, but may listen more than I think to what other have to say. This again would need some constraints and the students have to learn it is ok not to agree with others and have other not agree with you!! A life skill.
ReplyDeleteI have never in my entire life been a part of a science fair, I have only seen them on TV. I was in a social studies fair when I was in elementary school, I made a Trojan Horse. That was alot of fun. I can imagine how challenging it would be to organzie but I really do wish that science and social studies fair would make a come back! How lucky you are!!!
DeleteReactions to Debates and Science Fairs: How they are used? If they are used? How to improve on them?
ReplyDeleteThe league our school is in used to do a science fair competition for our league schools. I think it was great and it was a way for the students to do a hands on project and really learn some real world information from it. The league quit doing it because of participation. I was part of the petro active training that high plains did a few years ago and it would be awesome for a science fair. When I have taught science to kids I used it and it was great.
Debates are something that I think really brings out critical thinking skills. I have not used them in my SPED classes, but used them at times in my business law class when I was a general ed. teacher. I think they would be beneficial at any level, it is just having enough kids in one class at a time to make it beneficial.
I like the idea of both. My class has a subscription to Scholastic Action Magazine. In each issue there is a debate article. The article is a high interest subject with pro's and con's given for the topic. My students like to orally debate the article. That is closest thing to a debate I do in my reading classes. In the past the 8th grade science teacher has had certain students participate in a science fair activity but it was not a whole class or whole school activity. I wish our district did science or social studies fairs. I believe project based learning is far more effective than testing students!!!
ReplyDeleteA science fair, done as part of the classroom teaching on the various parts (question, research, actual experiment, data) and putting together the poster board would be much better than a test. Computer class could be brought in to help do the poster. In the Science fairs I'm familiar with; the students talk w/ the judges, so that would be a great public speaking experience before a small audience of one or two judges.
DeleteI'm used to hearing/seeing this strategy too. Only a specific group of students participate.. like, science club has a science fair, or the school has one as an optional project, so only students who WANT to participate have to and its not graded or guided at school.
DeleteSo, this is usually the students just super into science or doing it as part of some college application boosters.
That's a debate resource I was not aware of, I can think of a few teachers that would use it.
DeleteIdea.. Yes. In theory? Maybe for older students. I can see my 2nd graders getting easily distracted and forget what they were debating or get upset and quit.
ReplyDeleteI'm not honestly sure if Lakin does a science fair or not! I think it could be a lot of fun for the kids and it's always best to see the cool ideas they come up with. But, as a sped teacher, I can see some of these projects being pushed onto us if they aren't getting their work done at home and then we have to use our important class time or pull them from other classes to do these projects...
My own daughters did science fair at the elementary level. I can not remember the specific grade, but they were young. It was very simplistic compared to what we would do at the middle school. For example, the teacher chose the topic and gave the students the directions for an experiment. The kids basically had to perform the experiment and write about what happened. They did create a science fair board and presented to judges, but at the elementary level they were not required to have all the components that are required at the upper grades. I think it helped my daughters when they got to middle school and had to do a complete science fair project because it was something they were somewhat familiar with.
DeleteYeah, I definitely think these are for the older age groups. But science projects as a class could be fun. Maybe do a handful of them as a group, then after they are all completed have a parent night where the kids just walk around with their parents and explain what the class did for each one. This would just be an introductory way :)
DeleteFor several years, our 8th graders all participated in the science fair. We recently quit participating in it though. We currently have 7th graders who participate in the History Fair. My own children have done projects for the ingenuity fair (they had to invent something and present to judges) while they were in elementary school. All were interesting projects and had their merits. One big problem I have seen with all of them is they are large projects that take a considerable amount of time. Kids are bad about procrastinating on projects when they think they have plenty of time. Sometimes they are so overwhelmed they struggle to get started. In general, if a student is bad with organization and time management, they will struggle in finishing on time. I have not seen a lot of guidance from teachers about how to solve these issues. It is not just the sped kids that struggle with this either. A lot of general education students have poor organization and time management skills.
ReplyDeleteI think it makes sense to move to more projects such as science and history fairs as well as debates, especially in the history and science classes. Our current history and science assessments are not tests of recall of facts, but are rather a test of whether they can read historical or scientific documents and understand them to answer questions. Projects and debates are a better use of those types of skills rather than paper/pencil recall tests.
I was never a part of a science fair nor have I ever been to one. However, the way the author talks about them makes them seem awesome! I think these would be a blast and I love all the components. The revision process he describes is amazing and my favorite. Revision is so hard for my students and really for me to teach without saying "does that sound right? how could we make that sound better or more correct?" So I find myself doing a lot of the revision rather than the students figuring it out. A video presentation to see their own improvements is so empowering!!
ReplyDeleteI also like his ideas of just having fairs! It doesn't necessarily have to be a science fair. I don't teach science but I have science components to some reading we do. I think some history would be pretty neat too. My kids loved learning about Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, and Ruby Bridges. This would be cool to do during Black History month.
I think a way to improve the struggles of what science fairs have been in the past is what the author suggested of having the students complete the entire thing at school. This way so much more can be monitored and have teacher guidance and support.
I got to listen in on the discussion about a debate team between our forensic coach and an ELA teacher. The comments were that debate if very intense and a "ton" of research is involved. They commented that Ulysses is one of two schools in SW Kansas that participates in debate. Just thought those comments were interesting after our discussion on here.
ReplyDeleteI can only think of 1 of the districts I work in where Science Fairs/Debates are still being done. I love science fairs especially because I think it provides a great opportunity for a larger number of kiddos to shine and really delve deep into a topic they’re interested in. Plus, they then get to develop that project through various media they like and might not get to work with as much otherwise. Typically, the teacher who sponsors this at the elementary level always has positive stories to share about the kiddos that we work with (And, really, ALL of the students to be honest), the great skills they demonstrated, and the progress they made throughout the process.
ReplyDeleteOur 3rd graders still have a Science Fair every spring as part of their science grade. This year my youngest is a 3rd grader and he doesn’t usually have much to say about things they do/learn in class but when it came time for the science fair projects he was quick to tell me he already knew what he wanted to do. I think this is an areas that allows our students to explore something they are interested in and be a peer model and teach others.
ReplyDeleteI've missed the district's participation in science fairs since the teacher that supported them retired. So many kids I interview at the middle and high school level have skills in science and math, but deficits in language arts. These were an opportunity for them to shine and to meet others with similar interests - for some these were really Passion projects.
ReplyDelete