My main concern is adding more work to my already crazy class preparation schedule. I am sure that once this student led classroom takes off it will not be any more work than it currently is to get class ready. In fact it will probably be less work and more reward. I am excited to learn how to go about starting this in my classroom. I have committed to the extra work in the beginning to get to a student led classroom that works in the end.
I am wondering if this is a huge shift that would require me to completely change my classroom and philosophy or if it can be implemented a little bit at a time. If it is a 180 switch, I think it would be better to come up with a plan over the summer before implementing it.
Setting one up would be the first concern, and having it work well would be the other main concern.. Things always sound good in the book but then don't always run as smooth as they should when you actually implement them.
Also, I think collaborating with others that are setting up and using a student led classroom would be beneficial. I think we often get training or learn a new strategy but follow through on using it frequently and making long term change is hard with out some type of follow up or support.
I agree with you about the importance of collaborating with others who have previously done something like this. I think it's good to learn from our mistakes, but I also think it's WAY more efficient and less of a headache to learn from someone else's beforehand.
One of my first concerns would be getting it set up and having it flow like it needs too. I am worried about feeling overwhelmed in the beginning but I am sure if could find a way to break it down into smaller chunks that feeling would go away.
The time it would take to get it started. I've already lost my lunch and plan time and find it difficult to get things ready as it is. Starting over could be very time consuming. And I'm worried because I have some students who make terrible decisions continuously. I'm wondering how this would work for them. And, with very small groups.
I think if you were going to try this out, then trying it out in August would probably be the best way. As far as student's making terrible decisions....well we just have to let them, which I believe is the hardest thing for a teacher to sit back and do, especially because we don't want to come off as not caring since we may be the only positive role model those students have.
This is not something that you just decide and then try to put it into practice the next day. But with planning and trial and error it would be great. (Just need to understand not everything works well the first time you try it.)
I agree with you Marcy. This would be something that would take a lot of planning and lots of trial and error. I think it would be a learning process each year depending on the group of students that were in your class.
I agree with you Marcy. This would be something that would take a lot of planning and lots of trial and error. I think it would be a learning process each year depending on the group of students that were in your class.
I am worried how this will work when I only have 1-2 students in my classroom at any time, and typically those 2 students are not working at the same level or even on the same subject. Is it possible to do this with only a single student or does it require collaboration with peers?
Yes- it will be interesting to see how this works with our small class sizes! I have anywhere from 1 to 6 students per class. Not everything is workable with those small class sizes.
Agreed, this is definitely where the special education difference comes in to play. We should contact these guys with "what about us?!" haha I think in our benefit, though, we have more flexibility and also a "tighter" connection because of the small sizes. I think one of his goals is bringing the students to work together which is hard to do when you have so many of them.
I typically work with 1 or 2 students at a time also, and this is a concern of mine too. It's hard to get that collaborative atmosphere with such a small group.
I just don't know where to start.. I'm thinking of the content that I'm teaching my students at this level right now and I get stuck. I just have to keep reading because I need to know a little more here. Some of my kiddos I'm teaching basic, basic math and phonics to still. I'm really interested to hear more about HOW he does it rather than why its so awesome. I agree that it is awesome.. I am a firm believer in hands on learning and self discovery. I just haven't mastered those for every subject and can't figure out how "student led" will work with students who can't read most of the stuff they try and Google or find in book.. YET. That sounds super pessimistic, and I promise I'm a pretty optimistic person. Just as of now, I'm not sure student led classrooms are right for every type of situation. But, I'm only on chapter two! So, thats why I say I'm eager to keep reading.. I just need to know more.
I agree with being more interested in HOW this is accomplished rather then WHY it is so wonderful. There are tons of wonderful ideas out there, but if no one tells you how to do them, we as teachers are "dead in the water."
Good honest post. I'm in the same place you are. I am very excited to learn more and at very least, come up with better ways to incorporate cooperative learning. I am a huge believer in student-led and cooperative learning. I need more tools now in utilizing more effective models.
My primary concern is not setting up my classroom this way, I think if I started at the beginning of the school year, the students could buy into it easily and would give me more of an effort to having this become successful. However, this year I have only two students in my room at one time. So for example, if one is a freshman and the other is a sophomore, how would this look for student-led? Especially if one student is working on geometry and the other basic algebra, so does all the student-led belong to the sophomore in geometry?
One of my main concerns is the scheduling aspect of it. Is this an all day classroom like the elementary schools have or is he working this per class like the middle schools and high schools have? He seems to reference this in thematic units and not in isolated subjects. On page 19 he talks about how he merges various skills and lessons into a unit. I can see how that would be a time saver! Plus showing connectivity between the subjects enhances learning. He also talks about how much planning is done prior to his lessons and that is the key! The better planned and prepared the teacher is the smoother the lesson is. I am interested in how this looks for an entire day, or just a class period- that is my main concern, at this point!
My take away was that he was in an all day classroom and in teaching the traditional 5th grade subjects, thus making giving him an opportunity to do cross-curricular teaching units.
A few years ago our middle school made it a priority to plan some cross curricular units. They ended up being great units and had a lot of student led practices in them. It was definitely out of everyone's comfort zone, so once administration stopped pushing for unit development and use, they pretty much disappeared in the 7th and 8th grades. At the elementary school where the same teacher is responsible for all the subject areas, I think it would be easier. Getting 4-5 teachers to agree to do the thematic units and follow through on their parts was tough in the middle school setting. It only takes one person not following through to ruin it.
My concerns are: how do I get started? What kind of prep do I need to do for the students? What about parents and the administration? How would teachers make sure that Common Core expectations were being met? I definitely need to learn more and look forward to ideas and information being shared.
My concerns center around how this would work in the context of my classes. I often work with small groups of kids...sometimes just one kiddo at a time. Another concern that I have centers around the intensive instruction that my my kids require. If I were to have a student-led classroom, how would they receive the instruction that they need? How would they show improvement on the required weekly assessments if they aren't receiving the guided practice? I love the concept of a student-led classroom, but the logistics seem difficult at the current moment. Like others, I'm interested to read how he is able to make it all work.
I agree with you on the difficulty here.. that one on one or specific intervention time is important for our kiddos that need that extra help. I asked my self the same question about how are they going to get proper instruction then?! But he mentions he still has time for direct instruction, which is necessary sometimes.
I agree with you in wondering how this would look in our SpEd world. In theory, his ideas seems great, and I can totally see how setting up something like this would be beneficial for students and even to the teacher once everything's up and running how it should be... But then I get to thinking about specific students I've worked with, classrooms, teachers, situations, etc. and I'm like, "Would this REALLY be the best option???"
I do not have a classroom to set up. If I did I would worry about how to set it up to make it run smoothly. I usually only work with one student at a time. During counseling session, I definitely let the student take the lead and I roll with whatever they throw at me. However, during evaluations there are certain things that have to be done in a certain time period. I try to let the student choose the order in which they want to do things. I feel that it gives them a little control over the situation when they can choose what to work on first.
One concern I have is staying on track to finish the project or activity on time. When I work with students, we can usually set our own deadline for things to be finished, so this isn't such a big concern. But, it still is there because it's so easy for students to get off track or lose focus.
My greatest concern is how to apply a student led approach to a math classroom. I feel that when one is teaching math, it is vital to introduce topics in a logically organized manner. I can think of student-led activities that go along with my curriculum, but I am struggling to see how I might implement a truly student-led classroom for math. I think that this would be a hard transition to make mid-way through the year, and would take time to implement.
My first concern was how this would work with a smaller class size, like the 1-3 we'd have in pull-out for intensive intervention. I'd think you would need to implement with the tone set at the beginning of the year, and teach the skills the students needs to use through the year.
I think about how my typical day is and I generally have one student in my classroom at a time. My main concern is how would I implement this with how my schedule looks right now. I can imagine starting it in a general education classroom with larger numbers but the numbers I have at one time I'm just not sure how to make it happen.
My concerns would be dependent on the dynamic of the group of students I was teaching. If I had a group of 15 students who were all dependable, hard-working, motivated, honest, upstanding citizens, I don’t think I’d really have any concerns at all. I’d outline the process and let them go to town; Knowing in my head and heart that they’d make the right choices and do whatever was most beneficial for their education. However, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that’s probably not what a majority of classrooms look like :-) I’m on the same page as others in regard to the time to set up, class size, and varying student abilities all being concerns I would have in taking on something like this.
My main concern is adding more work to my already crazy class preparation schedule. I am sure that once this student led classroom takes off it will not be any more work than it currently is to get class ready. In fact it will probably be less work and more reward. I am excited to learn how to go about starting this in my classroom. I have committed to the extra work in the beginning to get to a student led classroom that works in the end.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the time concern! It would take a huge chunk of time. But, willing to try once I learn more!
DeleteI am wondering if this is a huge shift that would require me to completely change my classroom and philosophy or if it can be implemented a little bit at a time. If it is a 180 switch, I think it would be better to come up with a plan over the summer before implementing it.
DeleteSetting one up would be the first concern, and having it work well would be the other main concern.. Things always sound good in the book but then don't always run as smooth as they should when you actually implement them.
ReplyDeleteKeep reading:) And check out the website: http://www.learnlikeapirate.com/
DeleteAlso, I think collaborating with others that are setting up and using a student led classroom would be beneficial. I think we often get training or learn a new strategy but follow through on using it frequently and making long term change is hard with out some type of follow up or support.
DeleteHeather-
DeleteI agree with you about the importance of collaborating with others who have previously done something like this. I think it's good to learn from our mistakes, but I also think it's WAY more efficient and less of a headache to learn from someone else's beforehand.
One of my first concerns would be getting it set up and having it flow like it needs too. I am worried about feeling overwhelmed in the beginning but I am sure if could find a way to break it down into smaller chunks that feeling would go away.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it could feel very overwhelming at the beginning.
DeleteThe time it would take to get it started. I've already lost my lunch and plan time and find it difficult to get things ready as it is. Starting over could be very time consuming. And I'm worried because I have some students who make terrible decisions continuously. I'm wondering how this would work for them. And, with very small groups.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with the time issue. I don't always feel that I have time for anything extra than what I am already doing!!
DeleteI think if you were going to try this out, then trying it out in August would probably be the best way. As far as student's making terrible decisions....well we just have to let them, which I believe is the hardest thing for a teacher to sit back and do, especially because we don't want to come off as not caring since we may be the only positive role model those students have.
DeleteThis is not something that you just decide and then try to put it into practice the next day. But with planning and trial and error it would be great. (Just need to understand not everything works well the first time you try it.)
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Marcy. This would be something that would take a lot of planning and lots of trial and error. I think it would be a learning process each year depending on the group of students that were in your class.
DeleteI agree with you Marcy. This would be something that would take a lot of planning and lots of trial and error. I think it would be a learning process each year depending on the group of students that were in your class.
DeleteI am worried how this will work when I only have 1-2 students in my classroom at any time, and typically those 2 students are not working at the same level or even on the same subject. Is it possible to do this with only a single student or does it require collaboration with peers?
ReplyDeleteYes- it will be interesting to see how this works with our small class sizes! I have anywhere from 1 to 6 students per class. Not everything is workable with those small class sizes.
DeleteAgreed, this is definitely where the special education difference comes in to play. We should contact these guys with "what about us?!" haha
DeleteI think in our benefit, though, we have more flexibility and also a "tighter" connection because of the small sizes. I think one of his goals is bringing the students to work together which is hard to do when you have so many of them.
I share the same concern....with small class sizes and also w/ a couple of one-on-ones that don't have higher thinking level skills
DeleteI typically work with 1 or 2 students at a time also, and this is a concern of mine too. It's hard to get that collaborative atmosphere with such a small group.
DeleteI just don't know where to start.. I'm thinking of the content that I'm teaching my students at this level right now and I get stuck.
ReplyDeleteI just have to keep reading because I need to know a little more here.
Some of my kiddos I'm teaching basic, basic math and phonics to still. I'm really interested to hear more about HOW he does it rather than why its so awesome. I agree that it is awesome.. I am a firm believer in hands on learning and self discovery. I just haven't mastered those for every subject and can't figure out how "student led" will work with students who can't read most of the stuff they try and Google or find in book.. YET.
That sounds super pessimistic, and I promise I'm a pretty optimistic person. Just as of now, I'm not sure student led classrooms are right for every type of situation. But, I'm only on chapter two! So, thats why I say I'm eager to keep reading.. I just need to know more.
I agree with being more interested in HOW this is accomplished rather then WHY it is so wonderful. There are tons of wonderful ideas out there, but if no one tells you how to do them, we as teachers are "dead in the water."
DeleteGood honest post. I'm in the same place you are. I am very excited to learn more and at very least, come up with better ways to incorporate cooperative learning. I am a huge believer in student-led and cooperative learning. I need more tools now in utilizing more effective models.
DeleteMy primary concern is not setting up my classroom this way, I think if I started at the beginning of the school year, the students could buy into it easily and would give me more of an effort to having this become successful. However, this year I have only two students in my room at one time. So for example, if one is a freshman and the other is a sophomore, how would this look for student-led? Especially if one student is working on geometry and the other basic algebra, so does all the student-led belong to the sophomore in geometry?
ReplyDeleteOne of my main concerns is the scheduling aspect of it. Is this an all day classroom like the elementary schools have or is he working this per class like the middle schools and high schools have? He seems to reference this in thematic units and not in isolated subjects. On page 19 he talks about how he merges various skills and lessons into a unit. I can see how that would be a time saver! Plus showing connectivity between the subjects enhances learning. He also talks about how much planning is done prior to his lessons and that is the key! The better planned and prepared the teacher is the smoother the lesson is. I am interested in how this looks for an entire day, or just a class period- that is my main concern, at this point!
ReplyDeleteMy take away was that he was in an all day classroom and in teaching the traditional 5th grade subjects, thus making giving him an opportunity to do cross-curricular teaching units.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteA few years ago our middle school made it a priority to plan some cross curricular units. They ended up being great units and had a lot of student led practices in them. It was definitely out of everyone's comfort zone, so once administration stopped pushing for unit development and use, they pretty much disappeared in the 7th and 8th grades. At the elementary school where the same teacher is responsible for all the subject areas, I think it would be easier. Getting 4-5 teachers to agree to do the thematic units and follow through on their parts was tough in the middle school setting. It only takes one person not following through to ruin it.
DeleteMy concerns are: how do I get started? What kind of prep do I need to do for the students? What about parents and the administration? How would teachers make sure that Common Core expectations were being met? I definitely need to learn more and look forward to ideas and information being shared.
ReplyDeleteYou make such great points! It is so different to consider setting up a classroom that is student led when you have so many variables to consider!
DeleteMy concerns center around how this would work in the context of my classes. I often work with small groups of kids...sometimes just one kiddo at a time. Another concern that I have centers around the intensive instruction that my my kids require. If I were to have a student-led classroom, how would they receive the instruction that they need? How would they show improvement on the required weekly assessments if they aren't receiving the guided practice? I love the concept of a student-led classroom, but the logistics seem difficult at the current moment. Like others, I'm interested to read how he is able to make it all work.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the difficulty here.. that one on one or specific intervention time is important for our kiddos that need that extra help. I asked my self the same question about how are they going to get proper instruction then?! But he mentions he still has time for direct instruction, which is necessary sometimes.
DeleteKrista-
DeleteI agree with you in wondering how this would look in our SpEd world. In theory, his ideas seems great, and I can totally see how setting up something like this would be beneficial for students and even to the teacher once everything's up and running how it should be... But then I get to thinking about specific students I've worked with, classrooms, teachers, situations, etc. and I'm like, "Would this REALLY be the best option???"
I do not have a classroom to set up. If I did I would worry about how to set it up to make it run smoothly. I usually only work with one student at a time. During counseling session, I definitely let the student take the lead and I roll with whatever they throw at me. However, during evaluations there are certain things that have to be done in a certain time period. I try to let the student choose the order in which they want to do things. I feel that it gives them a little control over the situation when they can choose what to work on first.
ReplyDeleteOne concern I have is staying on track to finish the project or activity on time. When I work with students, we can usually set our own deadline for things to be finished, so this isn't such a big concern. But, it still is there because it's so easy for students to get off track or lose focus.
ReplyDeleteMy greatest concern is how to apply a student led approach to a math classroom. I feel that when one is teaching math, it is vital to introduce topics in a logically organized manner. I can think of student-led activities that go along with my curriculum, but I am struggling to see how I might implement a truly student-led classroom for math. I think that this would be a hard transition to make mid-way through the year, and would take time to implement.
ReplyDeleteMy first concern was how this would work with a smaller class size, like the 1-3 we'd have in pull-out for intensive intervention. I'd think you would need to implement with the tone set at the beginning of the year, and teach the skills the students needs to use through the year.
ReplyDeleteI think about how my typical day is and I generally have one student in my classroom at a time. My main concern is how would I implement this with how my schedule looks right now. I can imagine starting it in a general education classroom with larger numbers but the numbers I have at one time I'm just not sure how to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy concerns would be dependent on the dynamic of the group of students I was teaching. If I had a group of 15 students who were all dependable, hard-working, motivated, honest, upstanding citizens, I don’t think I’d really have any concerns at all. I’d outline the process and let them go to town; Knowing in my head and heart that they’d make the right choices and do whatever was most beneficial for their education. However, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that’s probably not what a majority of classrooms look like :-) I’m on the same page as others in regard to the time to set up, class size, and varying student abilities all being concerns I would have in taking on something like this.
ReplyDelete